Curse

Vermilion Okeanos · Aug 25, 2007, 09:15 AM // 09:15

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Profession: [Assassin/Ritualist]
Name: [Vampiric Nightmare]
Type: [GeneralPvP]
Category: [Spiker]
Attributes: [11+4 deadly art, critical strike 6+1, 11 channeling, 6 restoration, 2 dagger]

Skills Set
Expose defense
Palm strike
Vampiric Assault
Nightmare Weapon
Imaple
Crippling Dagger
Generous was Tsungrai
Resurrection Signet

Put nightmare weapon on then perform the combo from palm strike to impale. Crippling dagger for runner. Generous was tsungrai is the most effective heal imo for that level of attribute. Expose defense to make sure it hit.

Almost like touch ranger in spike form.

I am curious if this is going to be left alone like touch ranger. Then again, Anet usually nerf spike but not damage... so I think the chances are higher compared to touch ranger.

jesh · Aug 28, 2007, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Honestly, I haven't played EotN or looked at the skills, but I can already tell you this:

Siphon Speed is better in this build than Crippling Dagger.
It has the exact same requirements, but is a hex instead of a condition - harder to remove.
It also gives you more of a speed advantage than cripple alone. You'll be effectively moving twice as fast as your opponent.
Plus, it can't miss, as Crippling Dagger is a projectile.

craigrs84 · Aug 28, 2007, 06:39 AM // 06:39

how does vampiric assault work? is it a touch attack? or is it like a regular dagger dual attack? can you miss, i.e. if you are blind? does it steal life twice?

Yanman.be · Aug 28, 2007, 08:19 AM // 08:19

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Vampiric_Assault

MrGuildBoi · Aug 28, 2007, 08:22 AM // 08:22

I don't think Vampiric Assault deals armor-ignoring 10....42 damage. I think it just heals you. So its not really a 'spike'.

If it does, please say im wrong :]

Isileth · Aug 28, 2007, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Must follow an off-hand attack. If this attack hits, you STEAL 10...34 Health.

Vermilion Okeanos · Aug 28, 2007, 10:35 AM // 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

Honestly, I haven't played EotN or looked at the skills, but I can already tell you this:

Siphon Speed is better in this build than Crippling Dagger.
It has the exact same requirements, but is a hex instead of a condition - harder to remove.
It also gives you more of a speed advantage than cripple alone. You'll be effectively moving twice as fast as your opponent.
Plus, it can't miss, as Crippling Dagger is a projectile.

I thought about that, and I agree it is definitely better. However, I didn't bother to change it =P The only reason one should use crippling dagger is to have some kind of damage outside your normal combo.

Also vampiric assault STEAL hp... so yes, prot spirit etc is totally useless against it.

jesh · Aug 30, 2007, 12:45 AM // 00:45

I would think that Vampiric Assault would simply bypass PS to begin with, unless the opponent's HP is below 400ish.
If it's a true life steal, the damage dealt in the attack will show as:

2 weapon hits (it is a dual attack)
40 yellow
40 yellow
40 blue
40 blue

Probably all of this damage will go under the radar for a PS protected player.
Shield of Absorbtion or Shielding Hands is another story.

This is just in theory, again, as I haven't played EotN. I also agree with you on the damage use for Crippling Dagger, though I prefer Disrupting Dagger for that.

EDIT: After looking at your build more closely, I think the spike will not be as fast as you'd like.
Why? Well, the only real attack that you have there is your dual attack. Yes, that's 2 hits, but Nightmare Weapon needs 3 hits to cause full damage.
Because of this, you'll have to swing your daggers once to get the full effect. I guess it would be up to the player's discretion when they should steal that last 39hp.
Maybe it would be safest at the beginning of the spike, before the target feels in danger.
This is of course, presuming that Palm Strike does not count as an actual attack. If it does, feel free to ignore me.

Vermilion Okeanos · Aug 30, 2007, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Well, none of your points are any concern. Because vampiric assault is true life steal, and so is nightmare weapon. While the spike come from the dual attack itself + impale. The whole spike is 1 and 1/4 sec if u really want to say. 39+39+42+42+106+deep wound. That's 126 life stealing, 106 earth damage, and 80ish from deep wound; a total of 312 excluding palm strike. Also excluding 3/1 vampiric dagger.

Palm strike is also not an attack, but a touch skill.

Also, this build have been tested. By me of course.

Think of it as Eviscerate + executioner striker when both hit crit, but half of it is life stealing. Also no adrenaline charge.

jesh · Aug 31, 2007, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Uhm.. no.

Palm Strike is .75 seconds.
Your dual attack is 1.33 seconds.
Impale is .25 seconds.

You're looking at 2.33 seconds, assuming that Palm Strike has no aftercast.
And Nightmare Weapon doesn't activate on touch skills. Tested. This means you'll need to hit once with daggers as I theorized to get the last 39 damage.
Eviscerate spike is 1.83 seconds, by the way. And Impale is 100 damage at that level of Deadly Arts.

The damage is nice, but comes too slow for a real spike. I don't think that arena net will bother nerfing your build.

Phantom Gun · Aug 31, 2007, 02:42 AM // 02:42

I don't know anything about vampiric assault besides the fact it's a life stealing GW:EN skill for the sin. However I can assure you that Nightmare Weapon is nothing to fear. I have two rits, and a r/rt and I mainly find it most useful as a offensive heal on my splinter barrager in PVE. Plus it only works for 3 attacks which a sin could burn through in a few seconds. In which 42 per hit is the max if rt is a secondary, but this skill also has the damage reduction.

It is a good source for a quick self heal, although you still have to put yourself in harms way to use it. I can see how a sin might be able to take advantage of this, but if you are implying that this skill should be nerfed I must disagree.

Also with Generous was Tsungrai, it's a decent self heal, but you also suffer the energy loss from holding the ashes. I don't have a sin, but I don't think they have that much energy without dedicating their insignias, runes, and inscriptions to it. This build could be countered with a mesmer, or necro, or better yet, a me/n. That's just off the top of my head.

From my experience, unless a sin attacks me from the shadows, if I see them first, I can "usualy" take them out with SV, and Empathy. That's not including the other 6 skills on my skill bar. With this build you mentioned maybe throw on spirit shackles so they don't have enough energy to heal.

Yeah it's not that creative, but it works for me. It's not an auto win button either. I mainly pvp in FA, and from what I recall since I havn't been there in awhile, sins do have a spell, or form, that can make them immune to spells for a period of time. I could be wrong, but I remember trying to target a few sins before that I just couldn't cast anything on.

Anyway I got kind of sidetracked here, but I still say there isn't that much to fear. If they didn't nerf touch rangers, then I see no need to nerf this. Also yes, I don't play a sin. I don't have the patience to look for groups with one.

Vermilion Okeanos · Aug 31, 2007, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Like I said, the palm strike really isn't part of the spike. Once you palm strike, you do not need to immediately perform the combo. Though you most likely will perform the combo anyway, since the later damage can't be protected by majority of the things out there.

Also, I don't count activation time into a spike, or else lightning surge + lightning will not be consider a spike (even thou it is a spike that telegraph). I only count the arrival of the damage as spike, if you don't count it that way, fine. This sin spike can also telegraph itself, but the difference is that lightning surge can be removed or PSed; this can not.

The only reason I posted this build is because its damage can't be reduced by a normal mean of monking. I would really like to see if Anet will nerf vampiric assault or not. If the typical Anet balance applies, this would get a bit of toning.

One last thing, I did forget that I reduced one deadly art by the time I posted this build

As to phantom gun, I am not sure what you are trying to say; you mean that I said Anet going to nerf nightmare weapon? Btw, that enchantment is called shadow form. While there are pretty much a counter for EVERYTHING, that's why GW is awesome.

Edit: according to anet update, some skills got toned already. I am curious to see which.

Wyat Hawke · Aug 31, 2007, 08:04 PM // 20:04

I like the original idea, just want to post in something I've been running a bit (without GW:EN skills)

I tend to use Enduring Toxin over Siphon Speed mostly for personal matters, Siphon works just as good here if you want to. Combo would be NWeapon --> Iron Palm --> Attack once --> use Entangling Asp (putting them back to the ground), and follow up with the rest of the chain

However, Vampiric Assault just seems too good to not be used... I'll try to fit it in there somewhere. As to the original build, aren't you spending a bit too many attribute points on too many different attributes? you should get enough health from the life stealing, I don't really think you need Tsungrai aswell...

jesh · Aug 31, 2007, 09:12 PM // 21:12

If you don't count activation time, then Lightning Surge+Orb is .25-.125 seconds, cause the 3 second wait doesn't count.
In reality, this spike is almost useless in high end pvp because of how visible the hex is.
Any spike that will be used in pvp works in the same way.
If you see Shadow Prison appear on our screen, you know that pretty soon you're going to be taking some damage.
It doesn't make sense to discount this.

For pve, your build is great. It has a self heal, and hard to avoid damage.
For pvp, the spike is too slow, and you have no shadow step.
Sure you have life steals, but a target will get proted before you get there.

Vermilion Okeanos · Sep 01, 2007, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Lol, I don't disagree with you. I honestly don't think there are a single chance for this to be in the high end pvp. However, the genral idea is nightamre weapon + vampiric assault with the bonus of impale. If there are 2 sins with a combo like that on a single target, it would become another un-prot-able spike that can only be saved by infuse. If the infuser was that one under fire, your team can practically just roll over and die; unless you have more than 1 infuser O.o.The ranger distracting shot NW spike require 3-4 of them, this sin build only require 2. (Pretty sure most infuser have about 600+ HP, so it would probably take more than 2 of this sin to kill them instantly)

This build is currently set for RA, as that's where I tested it. While being RA, there are a sin hate, so the life stealing alone was not enough for me to survive without a monk. If I were to take this to HA or something, I would most likely get an offhand attack instead of palm strike, and change the elite to something more useful. Had the palm strike oringinally for RA's "tankers" and crippling dagger for the runners.

craigrs84 · Sep 06, 2007, 09:17 PM // 21:17

I've been playing with this idea and tried to come up with better versions (for PVP):

Deadly Arts: 11 + 1 + 2
Dagger Mastery: 8 + 1
Critical Strikes: 7 + 1
Shadow Arts: 4
Channeling: 10

Mix of radiant and nightstalkers,
zealous +5 energy daggers of fortitude
approx 35 energy required

Nightmare Weapon
Shadow Prison
Black Lotus Strike
Vampiric Assault
Ancestors Rage
Impale
Feigned Neutrality
Rez

Spikes for about 470 damage on a 60 AL target, 150 lifesteal

-or-

Drop critical strikes and shadow arts, buff up other attributes

Nightmare Weapon
Shadow Prison
Iron Palm
Falling Lotus Strike
Vampiric Assault
Ancestors Rage
Impale
Rez

Spikes for 520 plus damage, plus knockdown, about a second longer because of the iron palm... still steals life for a semi self heal

Something I've noticed that I'm sure people have realized before, but I'm not sure how widely known it is, if you use Ancestor's Rage and follow it immediately with Impale, they will hit simultaneously because of the 1 second timer on Ancestors Rage. This triggers the deep wound affect and hits for close to 300 damage. Both skills are only 1/4 cast time.